LEDs Etc

Prudent RVer at Gillette WY for the Escapade

We will have a booth at the Escapade in Gillette SY at the Escapade starting 8/28/2011. Look for us and try out one of our latest LED lights. We still have the best product and price.

I will not be there, but Nancy, the LED Lady, will be minding our store. Come by and say hello.

sam

An LED Solution for Rigs With Too Much Lighting

The fifth-wheel RV that I use at my basecamp has sixteen 12-volt fluorescent fixtures, each containing two F15T8 tubes. Each fixture uses 30 watts (2.2 amps) of 12-volt power to produce an effective 1,100 lumens of white fluorescent light.

If all fixtures are turned ON at the same time, the wattage is 480 watts (40 amps) and produces a rated luminosity of 27,480 lumens. But because of the limited light efficiency of fluorescent fixtures, the fluorescents only provide an effective 17,600 lumens (1,100 lumens each).

Oh yes, since the electrical efficiency of the ballast and lights is only about 50%, they are pumping 240 of those watts into heating the air in my rig.

In my humble opinion, that is just too much lighting (and heating) for an RV, even a large one with 400 sq-ft of space.

My sixteen fluorescent fixtures are grouped into four sets of three each and four singles. By turning OFF two of the three fixtures in each group, we could reduce our consumption to 240 watts (20 amps), and still have an effective luminosity of 8,800 lumens. That helps, but the resultant lighting is lumpy: too bright in some sections and dim in other parts of the rig.

So that is still too much lighting for some of the space we live in, and too little elsewhere. The obvious solution is to switch to LEDs to replace the fluorescent -- and that is what I did.

When I switched to LEDs, I intentionally reduced the amount of light from each fixture by disconnecting the ballasts and installing a single MyT.fLED-12 LightStrip in each fixture. Each fixture now provides an effective 480 lumens of light each, so the total lighting is 7,680, nearly what I could get by turning off eight of the fluorescent fixtures. And the light is constant throughout the rig, just as we want it. At the same time I reduced the electrical load for lighting from 480 to 96 watts, (40 amps to 8 amps).

As an added bonus, on warm summer evenings I no longer have to use nearly 750 watts to power the air conditioner to remove the excess heat produced by the fluorescent fixtures with their inefficiencies. That can easily add up to an additional 3kwhr per evening, so I am saving 4.2kwhr per evening.

At a retail cost of $37.20 each, the cost of converting all sixteen fluorescent fixtures is less than $550 with the 10% quantity discount. I get better light without heat or fluorescent radio interference or having to replace fluorescent tubes. And it takes about 5 minutes to convert a fixture. LEDs are a win-win solution.

Sam Penny, the Prudent RVer

Website Updates

I updated the www.prudentrver.com website today, at least in the catalog pages. I have added a "Find Your Bulb" and "Find Your Fixture" image that link to pages where you can look at all the choices for bulbs and fixtures where LEDs can be used. I will work on the connectivity to provide better information in the future, but for the time being you can see some of the choices and be pointed into the right directions.

I have also added a place for a couple of the Google Ads to be displayed. This is a change in my long standing policy of not having advertising on my website. We will see how it works. The purpose is to provide some new revenue to our business effort, but I do not want to create confusion for those who simply want to find the best in LED lighting. Let me know what you think. Should the ads be there, do they create a distraction, or what?

Sam Penny, the Prudent RVer

MyT.fLEDescents Compared to Stock Fluorescents

We recently moved into a Teton 5th-wheel at our basecamp. We found we had inherited 14 fluorescent fixtures in the ceiling, each containing two F15T8 tubes. Each fixture used 30watts of power to produce an effective output of 1,100 lumens of light.

If we turned on all the lights at the same time, we produced 15,400 lumens of bright white light along with using 4.2Kilowatts per hour. At the current price middle of August of nearly 20cents per kwhr, that came to $0.84 per hour. But at least half of that was wasted in heat, and it took three times as much power to get that extra heat out of the rig ($1.26), so our real cost for all that light was $2.10 per hour!

If this seems to be crazy, it is. First, we would not usually want all that light. So we could turn off some of the light fixtures. That would save some of the power consumption. But when I look around me, I still see 9 of the fixtures turned ON. Then I notice that those fixtures producing the light are all focused on specific areas, and the light is not spread out evenly the way I would want it.

A better solution is to reduce the amount of light coming from each fixture. But with fluorescents, you must power both tubes, and both will be using energy.

I made the remarkable decision that I should replace some of the fluorescent lighting with LED lighting using our MyT.fLEDescent product.

My first attempt was to put a single 12inch strip of MyT.TL2R light strip into a fixture to replace the two F15T8 tubes. The lumen rating of this light strip is 480 lumens, but at least it is all directed downward into the room. I was amazed when I found that the amount of light provided from each fixture was quite sufficient. The rig had been over-lit.

Each of the lightstrips uses 5watts of power (only 17% of the power required by the fluorescents) for the same fixture, and the power used to generate heat is less than 15% of that total. So the heat that must be exhausted by the air conditioning requires less than 3% of the total power usage. Suddenly, our power consumption with all lights ON dropped from $2.10 per hour to $0.15 per hour (for 0.75kilowatts).

The result is that I could be looking at as much as a 93% reduction in the operational cost of my lighting. Now is the time to charge forward and replace all the lights with LEDs.

Sam Penny, the Prudent RVer

 

Thoughts on LED Futures

I got started in LED lighting nearly five and a half years ago when I went looking for a way to help my batteries survive on cloudy days when my solar system could not keep up with the burn rate of the incandescent lights in my fifth-wheel. We were camped on the desert in Quartzsite at the time, so I went into the Big Tent for ideas on how to build some useful LED lights.

In 2006 there were a few LED lights that could connect with the fixtures in an RV, but their quality was poor, they failed quickly, and the light produced was not sufficient to be useful. The best being offered were built using LEDs designed for flashlights. In some cases they required direct wiring into the electrical system of the RV.

One booth at Q that I walked into had LEDs all over the place. Flashlights, dog collars, antennas, badges, beacons, and some of the strangest looking jim-kracky items you could imagine. I saw nothing that looked like it solved my problem, and I was about to leave. Then on the back table I saw a device that looked similar to an incandescent light from my RV.

Its form-factor was much like the 1141 bulb in my patio light, with a small metal base with two ears and a single contact. Sticking out the top of the metal can was a post surrounded with nine bare semiconductor chips, each a pale yellow color and about 3mm square. I had retired from a computer board manufacturer associated with Silicon Valley and knew the value of surface mount devices.

I asked the salesman, "Is that a light? Does it work?"

"Sure, let me show you." He brought over a couple of leads from a nearby 12v battery and touched them to the case and bottom contact. The device lit up brighter than my 1141. It was awesome.

"How much does that one cost?"

"This is the prototype. If there is enough interest they could sell for about $35, but they will last for 100,000 hours. And they only draw about 20% of the amps used by the incandescent. But you should talk to Kelly. He is the one who designed it."

I met Kelly, the owner of Neutek in Mesa, AZ, and that evening we designed a replacement for the 921 bulbs used in the ceiling fixtures of my rig. I agreed to buy eleven of them. After a bit more talk, I agreed to sell his products at rallies on the west coast. That was the beginning of a long and fruitful relationship between PrudentRVer.com and Neutek. We collaborated on the design of other LED solutions for RVs, and the Far East has "knocked off" our designs several times. I am now the stocking distributor for Neutek.

The reason for this history lesson is that I just realized it has only been five and a half years from the start of this "small segment of industry." It has changed so much, and there are so many more changes coming.

First, people commented on the high cost of LEDs, and yet they bought them to save on power and reduce heat in their rig. They could see the advantage, and they appreciated our policy of always backing up our product for its full life. Now, five and a half years later, the price has dropped over 50%. It is still a bit expensive, but people are replacing ALL the incandescents in their RVs, not just one or two. For some rigs this is 25 or more bulbs and the cost can be less than $400.

One of the big changes PrudentRVer.com in concerned with is the move to fully regulated light stripes, our TL2R. Each inch of the strip provides 40 lumens of natural white light (480 lumens per foot) and each inch is protected by a set of regulators that protect against the vagaries of voltage fluctuations found in most RVs (like when you turn on the generator, or the solar panels kick in). This is part of Neutek's ThinLUX linear lighting product set. We have solutions for RVs, boats, and domestic homes.

Another big change is the coming introduction of really nice 120v AC "bulbs" to go into the existing domestic home fixtures. We are not selling these, but we do strongly recommend them. They are a major step beyond incandescents, and so much better than the squirrel-tailed CFLs (that are actually a hazardous waste).

The result of these changes will be the ubiquitous replacement of incandescents and fluorescents with LEDs. It seems to be taking a long time, but then five and a half years ago, we were starting from nearly zero, and look how far we have come.

Go green. Go LEDs.

Sam Penny,  the Prudent RVer

 

Prudent RVer at Albany OR FMCA and Gillette WY Escapee Rallies

Nancy, the LED Lady, will be representing PrudentRVer.com at both the FMCA rally in Albany, OR and the Escapade in Gillette, WY.

The FMCA rally runs from June 2 through June 5 at the Linn County Fairgrounds. The Escapade is August 28 through September 1 at the Gillette Fairgrounds.

All the LED products found on the website will be available so long as supplies last. If we do run out at the show, we will ship free of charge to your specified address. There will also be some items that are not yet up on the website that you can see.

As you will see, many of our products are unique in the LED world. Much of it is assembled in Mesa, AZ rather than being shipped directly from China. That way we can control the quality of the product we offer. We believe enough in our product that we offer a lifetime warranty. And for some product, we offer the best price you can find on the Internet.

Sorry I will not be able to attend, but Nancy is doing a great job on the road.

Sam Penny, the Prudent RVer

Shipping LEDs to Canada

Ron asked, "Is it possible to use the coupon code FSQS100 for shipment to Canada, or get an equivalent discount?  I enter the code and it subtracts it, but then adds $24.95 back on again at the checkout." The coupon is question allows for free shipping on large purchases at www.prudentrver.com.

My response was, "No, the free shipping applies only to shipments within the US. Canada is a special case and it is expensive to ship into your country. Sorry about that. Come visit us and order while you are here. BTW, next fall we will be returning to the Arizona Market Place in Yuma, AZ, so maybe you can check us out while we are there."

Regards,

Sam Penny, the Prudent RVer

Question about LEDs on Boats

Today I got this request from R, a boater:

Greetings, Sam

I have been looking at your website a good deal lately.  I am in the process of a total refit of an old sailboat I have in Southern California.  One of the things I will be doing soon is adding LED lighting as the main interior source of light.  I am bouncing between the strip LEDs and converting a typical RV fixture to LED.  The real issue boils down to locating a good fixture to convert at a reasonable price or simply using a strip.  Based on what I see on your website, the angle of illumination is 150 degrees in both cases.  Do I have that right?  Your recommendation or advice would be very much appreciated.  In most cases, the lighting will be overhead (in the galley, over the dinette area, in the head/shower compartment, etc.) with a low headroom of around 6' 2-4".  Wide angle lighting is needed.  I would also like to have some red night lighting for night sailing in order not to impact night vision for the crew coming below for a snack or a look at the chart before returning to the cockpit.

If you know of a good source for RV/boat fixtures that would take the appropriate LEDs you sell, please advise and I will take a look at the units online or in some RV supply houses.

Your website is a good source of information.  Thanks for being there.

Regards, R

 

[Smile] It is always nice to have someone compliment your website. Glad it is helpful.

My response to R:

Congrats on your going to LEDs. Let's see how well I cover your questions.

First I will discuss the angle of illumination. We use SMD chips in which the LED emitter is embedded a small distance behind a phosphor coating that covers the surface of the chip. The LED light comes out smoothly in a cone that is about 150 degrees wide, sort of like a flood lamp. It is not a de-focused beam but rather a spread of light. The reason light does not come out the side is that the side-edge of the SMD chip gets in the way. Overhead lighting in your boat would not shine into the upper corners of the ceiling, but put most of the light within eye level across the room. It does work well for us in an RV since most of what we want to see is on the surface of the table or the book we are reading.

That said, we are experimenting with a new fixture called a DL100 (DownLight - 1000 lumens/ft). It is a linear light using our TL2R strips inside a special diffuser (Take a look at the MyT.fLED-C product for some comparisons). It looks sort of like half a fluorescent tube, with a metal plate that attaches to the ceiling (I used velcro). The diffuser spreads the light some more, and therefore the side light is brighter than if you were viewing the LED chips directly. Of course, this is at the expense of some of the light that would have gone down if it had not been redirected. I expect to have the product up on the website in the next couple of weeks, and its cost will be $4.25/inch. So a 10" DL100 offering 800 lumens would retail at $42.50. This is less than some 12-inch ThinLites fixtures. Of course, the ThinLite has a switch - the DL100 does also, but it is a special ON/OFF/dimmer switch at a $35 premium.

You can also attach a plain old lightstrip to the ceiling, either bare or in a plastic, waterproof tube. You still have the need for a switch somewhere. Without a diffuser, you will have points of light that bothers some people.

For the head/shower compartment, you might want to consider putting tubed lightstrips running vertically on the walls, like next to the mirror. This will get the light both up and down where you need it. I would not put a fluorescent type fixture there -- it is a waste of space.

For red light, I propose you determine how much light you want then purchase segments of the ThinLUX.TL0 in the native red color. For comparison, a single 1141 type bulb will provide an effective 140 lumens in a ceiling fixture. The TL0 is 10 lumens/inch, but you can run two or three strips side by side to get a concentration of light. The length would depend on the cockpit configuration. TL0 can be encased in waterproof tubing which is probably a requirement in the cockpit area.

As far as suggesting fixtures, I really don't have a good suggestion. Most of the ceiling down lights for RVs and boats are cans that you embed in the ceiling, and these all produce points of light. I like linear lighting, either with a diffuser like in the DL100 or as LightStrips like our SL1 or TL2R.

Thanks for the good words on the use of the website. Always feels good to be of use to someone. If you have more questions, please send email to sam@prudentrver.com or call me at 512-632-4626.

Regards,
Sam Penny
the Prudent RVer

Question about LEDs in Signs

Earlier this week I received an email question from M about using LEDs in signs. Paraphrasing what M said:

My sign company is in the process of testing some LED systems in our signs.  The signs are  14"  length  x 3.5" tall x 3" deep, and the actual light up area is 10 inches x 3 inches.  We currently use two 7 watt bulbs for a total of 14 watts. The brightness is ok but I would like them to be a tad bit brighter than the 14 watt bulbs. What do you suggest as far as backlighting? and how many? I am considering your ZLS LightStick and the ThinLUX.SL1.

For the ZLS you mention that the LightStick must be thermally attached to 12 sq-in of metal for proper operation. What does that mean?

Would these work for my needs, or are these LEDs only for use in vehicles?

Thanks, M

I responded: Let me begin by telling you about our latest addition on the www.prudentrver.com website. It is best described by the MyT.fLED-C product you can find on the website. The basic component is our flexible, half-inch wide TL2R tapelight which has 6 LED chips per inch. The light output is 40 lumens per inch, using 1/2 watt/inch of power. It can be provided in custom lengths from 1 inch up to 5 meters. The light from each segment is spread out over a 1/2 by 1 inch surface, and this gives a smoother appearance behind a lens cover, or in your case, a sign.

The TL2R product contains two proprietary voltage regulators per inch that provide an operating range of 11 to 18-volts (most efficiently at 12.5 volts). It does not require a special heat-sink, though it is good to have some way for the small amount of heat generated to escape. The tape is flexible with double stick glue on back. There is a TL2 version without regulation that is a bit cheaper but it requires a regulated 12-volt source of power.

The Starion chips were designed to produce a very bright LED light, but they do so by generating an excess of heat -- thus the requirement of a good heat-sink to back them up. Also, they are very bright points of light, which I would think could be a problem in your sign. The SL1 is a lightstrip using our more proven HyBright.3 LED chips, each producing about 20 lumens. Both of these products have operating voltage ranges of 11 to 13.8 volts and so should be driven by regulated 12-volt power.

I personally am recommending use of the new TL2R in many of our current applications. It offers a brighter light over a wider area without the overheating problems of the older generation LEDs. It also comes in Pure White, Natural White, and Warm White.

You ask about working only in vehicles. We originally designed our LEDs as the replacement of incandescent bulbs in RVs and boats that have a native 12-volt DC power source. However, our LED products are quite usable in industrial or domestic house environments by using one of the many 120VAC/12VDC converters that are available. For your sign application, a group of several signs could be handled quite easily with a single wall-plug mounted supply. It is a matter of running something like 22 gauge speaker wire from the power source to the various signs. I can help you find a good power source if you wish.

I hope this has answered your questions. If you have more, please call me at 512-632-4626 and we can discuss your requirements in more detail. You can also email me directly at sam@prudentrver.com

Regards,
Sam Penny
the Prudent RVer

MyT.fLEDescents - a New Kind of Light

We at prudentrver.com have been talking about using fLEDescents to replace the tubes and ballasts in fluorescent fixtures for some time now. Basically, the idea is to strip the insides out of a fixture and use a metal plate in the cavity to hold different forms of 12-volt lightsticks. We offered the trusty LS3, the SLS3, and the ZLS lightsticks for varying levels of light.

This has always been a good solution, better than trying to stick a lightstrip to the top of the tube enclosure, but everyone noticed the light was coming from some very noticeable dots (the LED chips), visible even through the lens cover.

Recently Neutek-USA in Mesa provided us with their proprietary TL2R light strip, a flexible tape offering 480 lumens of Natural White LED light per foot with the regulation that allows it to run in an RV 12-volt environment. The light is provided by a 2 by 3 array of LED chips on 1/3-inch spacing. Each LED chip is a single emitter - 7 lumens in a spot rather than 21 lumens. The arrays are arranged on a flexible tape about 1/2 inch wide. Each array is an independent one inch segment of the tape, and the tape can be cut into lengths from one inch to five meters.

The tape is a highly efficient heat sink, and with the LEDs spread over the surface, there is no need for even more heat sink. Each inch of TL2R has a pair of proprietary independent voltage regulators that protect the LEDs over a 11 to 18 volts operating range, with spike protection to 30-volts. Each inch of TL2R provides 40 lumens of Natural White light using only 1/2-watt of power, or 0.04 amps at a nominal 12.5 volts.

We have dubbed the new product line to be made of MyT.Bright LEDs; the smaller LED chips are like Mighty Mouse and create a great new aura of light. We put one or two TL2R strips on the metal panel and call the product the MyT.fLEDescent.

Our standard offering is the MyT.fLED6 which is a six-inch long panel. The single strip option provides 240 lumens of light for $24 in an existing fluorescent fixture. Or you can use two panels with the double strip option for 960 lumens for $96 in a 12- or 18-inch fluorescent fixture.

With the variability of the length, we can build MyT.fLED-Custom panels any length you want (up to sixteen feet). Our most recent installations were two 36-inch panels of 2,880 lumens each in a ForeTravel motorcoach and a 68-inch strip of 2,720 lumens in a Dynasty.

Take a look at the MyT.fLEDescents at prudentrver.com today for the next alternative to fluorescents in your RV.