LEDs Etc

LEDs and RF Interference

I notice there has been a lot of traffic on this blog about the RF problem with some LED products, where a hearing-aide or a TV or a radio has problems when the LEDs are turned on.

First, LEDs do not produce the radio frequency interference. An LED is simply a diode that emits light when a DC current is run through it. There is no complex circuitry within an LED to create the radio waves.

Second, the power source generating the voltage to run into the diode is what can produce the radio frequency interference. It all depends upon the design of the circuit around the LED chip. Some inexperienced design engineers are taking a simple, cheap approach to providing power to the LED, and their products create the RF interference.

So if someone says to you, "All LEDs generate RF, tell that person he/she does not know what they are talking about. Only LED devices with poorly designed power circuitry have that problem."

Sam Penny, the Prudent RVer at www.prudentrver.com
and the author at www.WasATimeWhen.com

Combos, the Latest in Configurable LED Lights for RVs

PrudentRVer.com has combined the flexibility of the zipLED with the ZDisk of the W9.RV3N products into an even newer more flexible product. We call them "Combos."

PrudentRVer.com began selling zipLED products three years ago. These allow the customer to use different light bases to fit the variety of lightbulb sockets in an RV and connect various lightsticks to those bases to solve lighting problems.

Last year we introduced the least expensive solution on the Internet for replacement of the 921 bulb in RVs. This product incorporated the 6 and 10 LED chip designs of the RV2N and RV3N ZDisks.

This summer, at the Escapade in Gillette, WY, Nancy Lessor-Adamo, the LED Lady, began to experiement with how to attach the ZDisk to a zipLED base and created two new products, the B15.ZD6 and the B15.ZD10. She called these products the "Combos." You can see them at www.PrudentRVer.com.

This combination of technologies allows us to provide 200 lumens of light in a flexible solution to fill B15s and B15d sockets in 12volt systems. The voltage regulation features of the ZDisks provide an even better LED product for your RV or boat. Give it a try.

sam

Whither RV LEDs

LED lighting for RVs is a very small niche market. There are not many RVs (compared to homes and businesses) and the primary selling point is to replace existing light bulbs with something better.

The prudentrver.com has worked with Neutek over the past five years to find the best implementation for RV bulb replacements and to find the best kind of light for RVers. We believe we have done a very credible job and have a product line that many are happy with.

Unfortunately, we are a flea on the end of a dog's tail and are being tossed around like a piece of flotsam in the ocean. There are many who have looked at our product and "knocked" it off, making replications at a cheaper price. Unfortunately, they most often did not understand the fine points of the technology and so miss the mark on product quality, and they do not understand the fine points of the kind of light people in RVs want and need. It is not the blue-white lite that is so easy to make with LEDs, it is a high-CR natural warm white that works in that environment.

At this time we are making re-orders for product we have qualified and purchased in the past, but our suppliers in China (the only source) have upped the minimum order quantity by a factor of 10. Our business is growing, but not that fast. So we are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I am not sure how it will all work out. We are in negotiations and hope to find some way of surviving and still providing what we believe is the best LED lighting out there, but there is the danger that we may not survive. For those who care, just wanted to let you know we are doing our best.

sam, the Prudent RVer

Question about LEDs on Boats

Today I got this request from R, a boater:

Greetings, Sam

I have been looking at your website a good deal lately.  I am in the process of a total refit of an old sailboat I have in Southern California.  One of the things I will be doing soon is adding LED lighting as the main interior source of light.  I am bouncing between the strip LEDs and converting a typical RV fixture to LED.  The real issue boils down to locating a good fixture to convert at a reasonable price or simply using a strip.  Based on what I see on your website, the angle of illumination is 150 degrees in both cases.  Do I have that right?  Your recommendation or advice would be very much appreciated.  In most cases, the lighting will be overhead (in the galley, over the dinette area, in the head/shower compartment, etc.) with a low headroom of around 6' 2-4".  Wide angle lighting is needed.  I would also like to have some red night lighting for night sailing in order not to impact night vision for the crew coming below for a snack or a look at the chart before returning to the cockpit.

If you know of a good source for RV/boat fixtures that would take the appropriate LEDs you sell, please advise and I will take a look at the units online or in some RV supply houses.

Your website is a good source of information.  Thanks for being there.

Regards, R

 

[Smile] It is always nice to have someone compliment your website. Glad it is helpful.

My response to R:

Congrats on your going to LEDs. Let's see how well I cover your questions.

First I will discuss the angle of illumination. We use SMD chips in which the LED emitter is embedded a small distance behind a phosphor coating that covers the surface of the chip. The LED light comes out smoothly in a cone that is about 150 degrees wide, sort of like a flood lamp. It is not a de-focused beam but rather a spread of light. The reason light does not come out the side is that the side-edge of the SMD chip gets in the way. Overhead lighting in your boat would not shine into the upper corners of the ceiling, but put most of the light within eye level across the room. It does work well for us in an RV since most of what we want to see is on the surface of the table or the book we are reading.

That said, we are experimenting with a new fixture called a DL100 (DownLight - 1000 lumens/ft). It is a linear light using our TL2R strips inside a special diffuser (Take a look at the MyT.fLED-C product for some comparisons). It looks sort of like half a fluorescent tube, with a metal plate that attaches to the ceiling (I used velcro). The diffuser spreads the light some more, and therefore the side light is brighter than if you were viewing the LED chips directly. Of course, this is at the expense of some of the light that would have gone down if it had not been redirected. I expect to have the product up on the website in the next couple of weeks, and its cost will be $4.25/inch. So a 10" DL100 offering 800 lumens would retail at $42.50. This is less than some 12-inch ThinLites fixtures. Of course, the ThinLite has a switch - the DL100 does also, but it is a special ON/OFF/dimmer switch at a $35 premium.

You can also attach a plain old lightstrip to the ceiling, either bare or in a plastic, waterproof tube. You still have the need for a switch somewhere. Without a diffuser, you will have points of light that bothers some people.

For the head/shower compartment, you might want to consider putting tubed lightstrips running vertically on the walls, like next to the mirror. This will get the light both up and down where you need it. I would not put a fluorescent type fixture there -- it is a waste of space.

For red light, I propose you determine how much light you want then purchase segments of the ThinLUX.TL0 in the native red color. For comparison, a single 1141 type bulb will provide an effective 140 lumens in a ceiling fixture. The TL0 is 10 lumens/inch, but you can run two or three strips side by side to get a concentration of light. The length would depend on the cockpit configuration. TL0 can be encased in waterproof tubing which is probably a requirement in the cockpit area.

As far as suggesting fixtures, I really don't have a good suggestion. Most of the ceiling down lights for RVs and boats are cans that you embed in the ceiling, and these all produce points of light. I like linear lighting, either with a diffuser like in the DL100 or as LightStrips like our SL1 or TL2R.

Thanks for the good words on the use of the website. Always feels good to be of use to someone. If you have more questions, please send email to sam@prudentrver.com or call me at 512-632-4626.

Regards,
Sam Penny
the Prudent RVer

Question about LEDs in Signs

Earlier this week I received an email question from M about using LEDs in signs. Paraphrasing what M said:

My sign company is in the process of testing some LED systems in our signs.  The signs are  14"  length  x 3.5" tall x 3" deep, and the actual light up area is 10 inches x 3 inches.  We currently use two 7 watt bulbs for a total of 14 watts. The brightness is ok but I would like them to be a tad bit brighter than the 14 watt bulbs. What do you suggest as far as backlighting? and how many? I am considering your ZLS LightStick and the ThinLUX.SL1.

For the ZLS you mention that the LightStick must be thermally attached to 12 sq-in of metal for proper operation. What does that mean?

Would these work for my needs, or are these LEDs only for use in vehicles?

Thanks, M

I responded: Let me begin by telling you about our latest addition on the www.prudentrver.com website. It is best described by the MyT.fLED-C product you can find on the website. The basic component is our flexible, half-inch wide TL2R tapelight which has 6 LED chips per inch. The light output is 40 lumens per inch, using 1/2 watt/inch of power. It can be provided in custom lengths from 1 inch up to 5 meters. The light from each segment is spread out over a 1/2 by 1 inch surface, and this gives a smoother appearance behind a lens cover, or in your case, a sign.

The TL2R product contains two proprietary voltage regulators per inch that provide an operating range of 11 to 18-volts (most efficiently at 12.5 volts). It does not require a special heat-sink, though it is good to have some way for the small amount of heat generated to escape. The tape is flexible with double stick glue on back. There is a TL2 version without regulation that is a bit cheaper but it requires a regulated 12-volt source of power.

The Starion chips were designed to produce a very bright LED light, but they do so by generating an excess of heat -- thus the requirement of a good heat-sink to back them up. Also, they are very bright points of light, which I would think could be a problem in your sign. The SL1 is a lightstrip using our more proven HyBright.3 LED chips, each producing about 20 lumens. Both of these products have operating voltage ranges of 11 to 13.8 volts and so should be driven by regulated 12-volt power.

I personally am recommending use of the new TL2R in many of our current applications. It offers a brighter light over a wider area without the overheating problems of the older generation LEDs. It also comes in Pure White, Natural White, and Warm White.

You ask about working only in vehicles. We originally designed our LEDs as the replacement of incandescent bulbs in RVs and boats that have a native 12-volt DC power source. However, our LED products are quite usable in industrial or domestic house environments by using one of the many 120VAC/12VDC converters that are available. For your sign application, a group of several signs could be handled quite easily with a single wall-plug mounted supply. It is a matter of running something like 22 gauge speaker wire from the power source to the various signs. I can help you find a good power source if you wish.

I hope this has answered your questions. If you have more, please call me at 512-632-4626 and we can discuss your requirements in more detail. You can also email me directly at sam@prudentrver.com

Regards,
Sam Penny
the Prudent RVer

MyT.fLEDescents - a New Kind of Light

We at prudentrver.com have been talking about using fLEDescents to replace the tubes and ballasts in fluorescent fixtures for some time now. Basically, the idea is to strip the insides out of a fixture and use a metal plate in the cavity to hold different forms of 12-volt lightsticks. We offered the trusty LS3, the SLS3, and the ZLS lightsticks for varying levels of light.

This has always been a good solution, better than trying to stick a lightstrip to the top of the tube enclosure, but everyone noticed the light was coming from some very noticeable dots (the LED chips), visible even through the lens cover.

Recently Neutek-USA in Mesa provided us with their proprietary TL2R light strip, a flexible tape offering 480 lumens of Natural White LED light per foot with the regulation that allows it to run in an RV 12-volt environment. The light is provided by a 2 by 3 array of LED chips on 1/3-inch spacing. Each LED chip is a single emitter - 7 lumens in a spot rather than 21 lumens. The arrays are arranged on a flexible tape about 1/2 inch wide. Each array is an independent one inch segment of the tape, and the tape can be cut into lengths from one inch to five meters.

The tape is a highly efficient heat sink, and with the LEDs spread over the surface, there is no need for even more heat sink. Each inch of TL2R has a pair of proprietary independent voltage regulators that protect the LEDs over a 11 to 18 volts operating range, with spike protection to 30-volts. Each inch of TL2R provides 40 lumens of Natural White light using only 1/2-watt of power, or 0.04 amps at a nominal 12.5 volts.

We have dubbed the new product line to be made of MyT.Bright LEDs; the smaller LED chips are like Mighty Mouse and create a great new aura of light. We put one or two TL2R strips on the metal panel and call the product the MyT.fLEDescent.

Our standard offering is the MyT.fLED6 which is a six-inch long panel. The single strip option provides 240 lumens of light for $24 in an existing fluorescent fixture. Or you can use two panels with the double strip option for 960 lumens for $96 in a 12- or 18-inch fluorescent fixture.

With the variability of the length, we can build MyT.fLED-Custom panels any length you want (up to sixteen feet). Our most recent installations were two 36-inch panels of 2,880 lumens each in a ForeTravel motorcoach and a 68-inch strip of 2,720 lumens in a Dynasty.

Take a look at the MyT.fLEDescents at prudentrver.com today for the next alternative to fluorescents in your RV.

Clubs Can Purchase LEDs For A Discount

We have started offering a discount plan to RV clubs for the purchase of our RV LEDs. It amounts to an average of a 10% discount, which, with our recent price drops is beginning to put the LED replacements for incandescents into the realm of feasible for many, many more RVers.

The Skinnie Winnies are the latest addition to our fold. These are the owners of Winnebago Views and Itasca Navions. My thanks to Gary Gibson for getting this all set up.

If you are in that club, check the recent forum entries for more information on how to capture the discount.

If you are some other club that would like to have the same kind of priveleges, go to www.prudentrver.com and click on the Dealer/Club Information link in the left column and find out how easy it is to become an active club with the Prudent RVer.

Sam Penny, the Prudent RVer

W9.RV3N RV LED Coming Back, Lower Price

A couple of months ago I ran out of the W9.RV3N product, a very nice bright LED disk that replaced the 921 wedge bulbs in RV fixtures. When we tried to reorder, the producer was unable to provide the quality product we required, so we had to drop the product from our line and start a new search.

We found a first replacement, and an even better second replacement.

Best yet, the price is reduced, BIG TIME to under $13!!!

Our first batch is a higher color temperature than the previous product, more on the Pure white side at around 5,000K. These will be available on the website this afternoon.

The next batch to arrive mid-November will be warmer, closer to 4,000K, and will be a Natural white. I will announce the arrival of this product.

And now the price: $12.98 for a 200 lumen LED light replacement for the 921. This is the lowest price available for this size of LED light. Go see the W9.RV3N now. And if that is too bright, there is the W9.RV2N for the same price.

Sam Penny, the Prudent RVer

 

TapeLights Showing at Cal Expo RV Show

Tomorrow we will be showing our LED wares at the Cal Expo RV Show in Sacramento, CA. It is not a large show, but there are lots of RV choices out in the parking lot for people to look over. There are some nice booths in the indoor market, such as ours where we show the different LED lamps and lightstrips available from LightBlasters.

Our latest product addition is the TapeLight, a flexible 3/8" wide, adhesive-back tape with three LEDs every 5 centimeters. The TapeLight runs at a nominal 12-volts, what you find in most RVs and Boats. Each HighBright-1 LED produces about 7 lumens, so you have about 120 lumens in a 60 cm strip (about one foot).

TapeLights come in a variety of colors, including cool white, warm white, red, blue, and green. A special version can be ordered that will change colors between red, blue, and green upon command from a controller (sold separately).

You can string together 65 feet of TapeLight before you reach a current draw of 3 amps, the point at which you might begin to worry about voltage drop affecting the brightness of LEDs at the end of the string. TapeLights come in 5-meter reels but can be cut at any 5-centimeter segment mark. They can be soldered together to achieve the required lengths.

If you are interested in purchasing these new TapeLights, contact www.prudentrver.com. The cost is $1 per LED in small quantities.